For
those that remember it, Prisoners of Gravity was a television show clearly ahead of its time. It devoted a
half-hour every week to the serious (and sometimes not so serious) discussion
of science fiction, fantasy and comic books. Every episode was devoted to a
particular theme (censorship, time travel, ecology) or to specific topics
(Cyberpunk literature, the Watchmen
graphic novel, writer Neil Gaiman). It was a show that tackled
thought-provoking subjects in an entertaining and informative matter. There had
been nothing like it before and nothing like it since.
The
primary creative force behind the show was Mark Askwith. He had started off as
the manager of The Silver Snail, one of the premiere comic book stores in North
America, in 1982. Located in Toronto it was right across the street from Bakka bookstore, a shop dedicated exclusively to fantasy and science fiction books
and magazines. This was the perfect area to cultivate a serious love of science
fiction and comic books. More importantly, it also gave Askwith an opportunity
to meet legendary comic book creators, like Frank Miller, and local science
fiction authors.
He left
the Snail in 1987 and worked on Ron Mann's excellent documentary, Comic Book Confidential (1988). Its
success led to the creation of Prisoners
of Gravity, a television program that took the ideas presented in Mann's
movie and expanded on them in detail and scope. It was the brainchild of Mark
Askwith, Daniel Richler and Rick Green. Askwith conducted the bulk of the
interviews done for the show (over 400 guests by the end of its run), Green was
the host (and provided the humorous asides and personality) and Gregg Thurlbeck
directed each episode. All three worked closely together writing the show and
assembling it so in actuality their tasks often overlapped. PoG's budget was very modest, only
$23,000 an episode and over the course of its run received numerous awards and
accolades.
Prisoners of Gravity first aired on
TVOntario, a Canadian public television station, in 1989 where it ran for five
seasons and 137 episodes before being canceled in 1994. It was shown numerous
times in syndication, briefly on PBS, the Discovery Channel and Space: The
Imagination Station (the Canadian equivalent to the Sci-Fi Channel). Over this
time PoG developed a small but loyal
following.
I had
the chance to conduct an interview with Askwith via email. He is currently one
of the founding producers of the Space channel and graciously took time out of
his busy schedule to reminisce about Prisoners
of Gravity.
How did you get into comic books and science
fiction? Were you always into them as a young age or did you get into them
later on?
I read
the Narnia books, Andre Norton, the
Robert Heinlein juveniles, and anything I could get my hands on. My mother ran
a children's bookstore in Ottawa called the Bookery, so I had exposure to
"the good stuff."
I was
given a Tintin album Explorers on the Moon when I was 4. I
think it was really what got me hooked on comics. I also ran across a stash of
superhero comics when I was 7 - that also was a pivotal event for me... the
seeds were sown.
I
didn't take comics seriously until a friend with "The Tiny Perfect
Collection" turned me on to great comics. This would have been first year
university. I've always read every genre, and it wasn't until Prisoners of Gravity that I focused
exclusively on genre.
How did you get involved in Ron Mann's
documentary, Comic Book Confidential?
Was it the blueprint or did it give you the idea for Prisoners of Gravity?
I
pitched a documentary to Ron, because his previous documentary was on where I
used to work - Coach House Press. He was open to the idea, but then started to
mutate it into a valentine to Marvel Comics. Now, there's nothing wrong with
that, but I thought that Ron would be more attracted to the work of the
underground artists, and I thought we had an opportunity to do something unique
and timely - get these major creators before they left us. I gave him some
direction, and with BP Nichol, the film happened.
Did Comic
Book Confidential attract Daniel Richler's attention and result in the
creation of Prisoners of Gravity?
Yes.
Much as I loved working on a documentary film, I hated the fact that it took
three years to produce. I realized that comics and pop culture really need a
faster delivery system - television. When Comic
Book Confidential won a Genie [note: this is the Canadian equivalent of the
Academy Awards], that caught several people's attention. I initially saw PoG as "The New Music for SF/comics," [note: The New Music is an excellent T.V. magazine show dedicated to
musicians and new trends in music] and as a person who was instrumental in
shaping New Music, Daniel was the
perfect person to pitch.
I really like that analogy of PoG being The New Music for SF/comics. I remember that program well! What
really stood out was the quality of the questions asked of the artists. PoG certainly had the same level of
quality and intelligent interviews. PoG
didn't ask superficial questions or go for the fanboy response but really put
some thought behind what was asked of the interviewee. I also think that what
makes PoG stand out, is that it
treated the comic book/SF/fantasy genre with respect and legitimacy. Was that
an important thing for you to convey in the show?
I think
it is important to remember that I am a writer, and was the manager of one of
the best comic book stores in the world. By the time I worked on Comic Book Confidential, I had already
met/interviewed hundreds of creators, and by the time I created PoG I had published The Prisoner Graphic
Novel. Many of the Canadian SF writers knew me, as I hung out at Bakka, so I
was "one of them." I had "street cred," or "genre
cred" (!?). What I wanted to do was showcase what I saw as a hotbed of
creativity, and not some guy in pointy ears at a convention. Interestingly, one
of the few complaints I got from fans was that the show wasn't more about them,
that we were elitist because we dared to focus on the authors (and didn't I
know that fans went to cons to meet other fans, not see the guests). I really
felt that if we got to the rich center of genre-ideas - then ANYBODY could
watch (I always aimed the show at my mother and father), so I assumed no knowledge
of the material. We built the shows so the material added up, and hopefully
made sense.
Also,
on all the shows I've worked on - whether it was an interview with Margaret
Atwood, or John Updike, or William Shatner, my approach has always been to respect
the material.
What was your original brainchild/plan for Prisoners of Gravity?
Originally
the show was pitched as a 7 minute segment to fit between episodes of Dr. Who. I'd host it, and do the
interviews, and use the platform to talk about the latest in genre. TVO lost
the rights to Dr. Who, and I talked
Daniel into a half hour, theme based show. I think he thought I'd host it
(horrors), but blessed as I am with a face for radio, he let Rick Green
audition.
How did Rick Green's name come up as a possible
host? Was he much of a fan of comics/SF before he did PoG?
Rick
was in seeing Daniel about other ideas, but Rick knew about my show because we
played ball hockey together every Sunday. That may give Americans the idea that
all Canadians know each other, and play hockey, but hey, that's my story...Rick
was/is an old school SF fan, into Bova, Asimov, Bradbury...
Did TVOntario give you guys a lot of freedom
on the show or did they try to impose any kind of restrictions?
They
were great. We didn't cost a lot. We were not on their radar, and because of
Daniel's clout, they gave us total free rein. Luckily, I knew what a blessing
that was! They were very supportive, not only of the show, but of the producers
and Rick.
Was it tough, at first, to get interviews
with authors/filmmakers/artists or did you already have connections that opened
doors for you?
One of
the great things about being first, and getting it right, is that support just
grew in the community. Everybody we put on air seemed to like it, so one
interview led to another. It does seem crazy that we'd get so many wonderful,
famous people (Anne Rice, Ray Bradbury, Jack Kirby), but in a way we were the
only game in town. My work in publishing and managing the Silver Snail, and
writing for DC Comics meant that I had some credentials... but mostly I think
it was the show that opened the doors. It's also hard to remember, but when we
interviewed first Neil Gaiman, or Terry Pratchett, or Jaime Hernandez, most
people didn't know who they were.
I remember that the first season had a more
Cyberpunk flair to it (Commander Rick even had his hair spiky and dyed!) that
seemed to be toned down in subsequent seasons. Was that a conscious decision?
Did you feel that his look and some of the visual tricks distracted from the
content?
Yes,
although there were other factors. One, a new director, Gregg Thurlbeck, who
went back to my original idea, and the collective realization that film clips
and certain visual tricks would date the show, and perhaps mean we couldn't
repeat the shows.
You've talked about some of your favorite
interview subjects over the run of Prisoners
of Gravity in other interviews. I remember that you guys interviewed Harlan
Ellison at one point. I've heard that he's an incredible storyteller and he
certainly made some memorable contributions to certain episodes. What was he
like to talk to?
I love
his writing, but Harlan and I never seemed to connect. Gregg did the last three
interviews, including the incredible one about censorship, and those two guys
REALLY connected! I have no ego about my work, so if I feel another producer
should do an interview, I'm the first to suggest it.
I find it incredible that Prisoners of Gravity was canceled even
though it was inexpensive to produce and it was getting decent ratings? Did you
ever find out why it was canceled at the height of its popularity?
The
best explanation came from the Head of English Language Production (way up on
the T.V. food chain), and he felt that other communities needed to be served.
He felt that much of the PoG material
could be wrapped into Imprint, and a
short time later, I became the producer of Imprint.
I think I was the least affected by the cancellation, I was the least upset. I
didn't take it personally, because I was humbled that we got 5 years and 137
shows out before anybody shut us down. We won some awards, and turned some
people onto good reading, so I was happy. Frankly, it never occurred to me we'd
last more than a year or two.
In many respects, Prisoners of Gravity was ahead of its time.
Thank
you. It does seem to have aged well.
To this day, I'm hard-pressed to think of
anything else like it on television. Do you think a show like it would still
work today or did it belong to a certain time and place?
Great
question. I think it was the product of its time, and the show was a labour of
love for the very few people who produced it, and the hundreds of people we
interviewed, and the tens of thousands who watched it. Others don't agree, and
they think the show could work now. I'm a skeptic, you'd have to convince me.
I would like to think PoG would work now. With the success of Space: The Imagination
Station in Canada and the Sci-Fi Channel here in the United States, there is
certainly a market for a program focusing on SF/fantasy. Also, I think that
with the recent resurgence in hugely successful cinematic adaptations of comic
books (Spider-Man, X-Men, Ghost World, Hellboy, et
al) there would be a definite market for that kind of show. Especially, if one
were to establish it with a strong web-presence as well. That would be the key,
because so many fans of comic books and SF have a strong, dominant presence on
the Internet.
I'm
glad you feel so strongly. I only see two possible markets - SPACE and
Sci-Fi... so it isn't as financially viable as I'd like. I have long advocated
a web tie-in, so I agree there. Frankly, I wouldn't do another PoG unless it was available beyond
Canada.
Do you still get emails/letters requesting Prisoners of Gravity to be re-broadcast
or put onto DVD?
We ran
the show on SPACE in 1997/98, to great ratings and feedback. That prompted
people to ask about further airings (it's airing now on BookTV), and possible
DVD's. Oddly, in 1996 there was talk of doing a web-based PoG... with Microsoft (!), but plans fizzled out.
To that end, is there any interest in this
area?
Some,
but not enough.
The
episodes are all available at The Merril Collection of Science Fiction, in
Toronto. The raw interviews are not available.
Do you own the rights to Prisoners of Gravity? Is there any chance of this happening or
perhaps it being re-broadcast in some format?
It's a
murky area that would need lawyers... but I think that the agreements that the
authors originally signed would mean "no."
On a side note, seeing as how you are so
heavily involved in comic books, I was wondering what you thought about recent
comic book adaptations into movies? What are some of your favorite and least
favorite in the past few years and why?
I'm not
very involved in comics now, although many of my friends make them. I did an
eight page story with R. G. Taylor for a benefit book called Drawing the Line (plug, plug), and an
eight page story drawn by M.W. Kaluta. I liked Spidey 1 and 2, X-Men 2, Crumb and Ghost World.
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